Lansete CUSTOM

[semlecangheorghe]

Cand te aventurezi pe teritoriul compresiilor mari controlul asupra uniformitatii presiunii si distributiei uniforme a rasina intre foliile de grafit este o chestiune foarte delicata, poti sa scoti blankuri exceptionale sau un procent mare de blankuri care se rup foarte usor.

Cristi cu asta m-ai dat gata...Ai desfoliat cumva un blank gata rulat ca sa constati ca rasina nu-i uniform distribuita??
Oare rasina aia se aplica cu pensula ori trafaletul??
Incredibil ce imaginatie ai...
Si asta-i epocala...''uniformitatea presiuniii''... intr-un loc masinaria exercita presiune mai mare,intr-un loc presiune mai mica...
Acuma pa bune ,tu citesti ce scrii??

[cristian.ene]

For decades there have been composite materials with ceramic , metal and resin matrices. in all these composite families , people have used particulate reinforcement , chopped fiber reinforcemenet , continuous fiber feieforcement , woven fiber reenforcement , short linear structural reenforcement (such as whiskers and nano tubes , high surface area to volume shaped reinforcements (such as platelets).


Nano resins are simply another type of particulate reenforced , resin matrix composites. When the nano resins are used as matrix materials in a fiber reenforced plastic composite (FRP) you in fact have a composite within a composite.

Typically fishing rods would have fibers of glass or graphite or even ceramic fibers that are bonded together with a plastic (resin ) matrix. The reasons for doing this include a great increase in the modulus of elasticity of the composite over that of the pure resin , a great increase in the fracture toughness of the materials , the ability to control the directionality of the properties of the materials so as to optimize properties in the direction(s) of importance for the particular applications , the reduction in the weight of the composites , and many more.

Now instead of just resin bonded fibers , go to the next level down microscopically and add particles to the resin. Now instead of the total composite being fibers bonded with resin , you have a resin phase which in fact is resin mixed with particles. So the resin phase is now a composite in and of itself and that particulate reenforced resin phase composite is now used to bond the fibers in the bulk composite instead of just pure resin alone. thuis its a composite within a composite.

Now particulate reenforcement of a resin is old , old technology. In many cases it was originally done to replace expensive resins with very cheap particulate materials. Its very easy to add 20 to 25 % particles to a powdered resin. I know f cases where dust collected in ventilation systems as well as floor sweepings were gathered and added to resins. Essentially free dust was added to resins add about 25% volume fraction. It did two things , it reduced the cost of the resin/particle matrix materials by almost 25% because free dust replaced expensive resin. It also had the added benefit of increasing the modulus of the resin composite (if the right particles were chosen , in the dust case they were ceramic materials) , and they increased the fracture toughness of the materials. The modulus goes up almost as a direction calculation using the rule of mixtures. If the resin has a modulus of 1 and the ceramic particles a modulus of 5 , you end up with a modulus of about 1.8 in the finished mix if you use a 20 volume percent of loading of the particles. This is a huge increase in modulus and you got it at the same time you saved money on the expensive resins. The fracture toughness occurs because the particles act as crack arrestors in the matrix. Essentially they break up the mean free path for crack propogation. A crack starts but instead of the crack going all the way through the material , it hits a particle which redirects it of stops it completely.

Another big area of property improvements in the overall composites has to do with trading off the visco-elastic properties of the resin with the linear elastic properties of the reenforcements. this is perhaps the biggest thing happening in many fiber reenforced composites but its very complicated and a whole side discussion on its own. There is also an increase in strength of the composites when the primary loads begin to be bourn by the linearly elastic materials (fibers and particles). Again this gets very complicated.

One of the big factors that contribute to the success of a second phase particle or fiber as a reenforcement in the composite has to do with surface to volume ratios. The simple explanation is that the more surface the reenforcement has per unit of volume , the more successful it will be as a reenforcent as long as the surfaces bond to some extent with the matrix resin. Long thin fibers have a lot of surface area per unit volume and that is one (just one) of the reasons they can be used successfully in composites.


Nano particles are super small. As a result of this they have a huge surface to volume ratio. This is one reason (only one of many reasons) why they make good particulate reenforcements inb the resin materials. The huge surface area means good bonding. It also means a lot of surface area for debonding (an energy absorbing mechanism) in the case where damage tolerance is needed. The fine particles also mean a very uniform distribution of the secnd phase. One big particle of sand in a bar of cured resin will make it decidedly weaker but if that particle of sand is broken up into millions of tiny pieces , the same amount of the sand as tiny particles will make the cured resin bar much stronger , much high modulus and much more damage tolerant resistant to fracture (tougher).

The silica nano particles used in the nano resins are essentially that volume of the big grain of sand reduced to millions and millions of little particles of sand. They can be finely dispersed , have a huge surface area , bond well to the resin matrix and impart improved mechanical properties and fracture toughness to the composite.

Now Lami says that they are able to achieve levels of 40% do to the small size of the particles enabling the resin to flow between the fibers in their rod composites. Well in fact that 40 % number is not how much nano resin flows between the fibers , its the amount by volume of nano particles in the resin phase mix. that is 40 perecnt of the resin has been replaced by by nano particles (which BTW is a very high volume fraction for a particulate reenforcement.). The amount of nano resin mix used to bond the fiber materials may be little or no different than that used if pure resin were the polymer phase. Its the ability to load the nano resin mix to 40 volume percent and still have it be able to flow between the fibers to bond them that is what they are bragging about.

As far as the statements made about autoclaving and whether lami is doing it now , I don't know. jsut because some kind of pressure cure is needed to optimized the manufacture of FRP's when nano resins are used doesn't mean that they must be using autoclaving if they are using nano resins. what it means is that they should be using a pressure assisted cure , nat that they are. I have no idea if they are or not. If they are you would think they would say so but perhaps that gets into not wanting to promote autoclaving as beneficial since their competitor , century has been using and promoting that as a beneficial process for many years. maybe they are using it and have other reasons for not saying so or maybe they are not using it at all. I'm sure that info will eventually become available.

SIM's explanation about areas being conolidated at different pressures and how there is more uniform consolidation with autoclaving is correct but the big thing is the ability of that pressure to make the resins flow un iformly into voids in the composites and to promote bonding between the resin matrix , the fibers in the wraps and the particles in the resins. The idea is to squeeze out all the air and have every bit of surface bonded. the nature of the bond between the resin and fiber and between the resin and the particles is again a hugely complicated thing that you could write a hundred technical papers about but in fact we do want some bonding between the resin and the nano particles and the fibers.


Well anyway , this has turned into a lengthy post an i am not going back to correct the spelling but I hope it touches on some of the important areas of what makes composites work and especially the idea of what fiber reenforced nano resin compsiites are which is that they are fiber composites that use a Particulate reenforced resin phase to bond the fibers together. A composite within a composite. Particulate reenforced resin composites as the matrices in bulk composites with fibers , larger second and third phase reenforcements , etc are old hat. Its the use of the extremely fine nano particles instead of previously used say micron size particles that is the new twist in these materials.

[cristian.ene]

Pentru a intelege mai bine ce inseamna Autoclave Technology si ce implicatii are in fiabilitatea blankurilor

http://www.centurycarp.co.uk/technology/

[Jedi]

Nu stiu daca-i clar pentru toata lumea ca foliile de grafit sint fabricate si livrate in suluri mari , ca un covor.. de catre DuPont ,BASF, Torray si alti mari producatori, care expun marfa ,pretul si instructiunile de folosire.
Firmele de lansete cumpara covorul pe care si-l permit ( oferta e de o varietate destul de mare...grosimi,rasini,densitati,preturi... etc), incep si taie triunghiuri, rasucesc pe mandrine si baga in cuptoarele lor cu temperatura si presiune sau fara ,pentru pornirea reactiei rasinilor ce sint gata impregnate in folie.
Tipul fibrei si maglavaisurile sint deja acolo si ei nu intervin ulterior. Generation 5 , Dual Helical , Titanium coated, Matrix resin, Nano silica, Kevlar reinforced si alte bazaconii sint bullshituri inventate de ei sa gadile in mod placut urechea pescarusului cumparator. Au auzit ei ceva date tehnice la cumpararea covorului si inventeaza si povestea care sa insoteasca lanseta la magazin , ca fara o poveste ....mina intinsa capata mult mai greu...doar a zis clar domnul Dinica in film.. .
Nu la toti le-a reusit respectarea instructiunilor de la Torray sau aia si-au supraestimat produsul, sau ai nostrii au impins limitele si grosimile prea mult, sau autoclavu e vechi si prost ...sau....sau...
Degeaba punem citat cu ce zice Jerry Siem de la Sage despre Konetic Tehnology, ca el nici nu are voie sa intre in curte la DuPont ...

[tyrael]

Jedi ai spus exact ce imi trecea mie prin minte, abrevierile de tehnologii si **** sunt doar marketing curat. Rasina aia mizerabila ii adauga o lingura de apa, devine mai subtire si iti baga un nume pompos din startrek, figurat vb dar idea ati inteles-o.

[semlecangheorghe]

Pentru a intelege mai bine ce inseamna Autoclave Technology si ce implicatii are in fiabilitatea blankurilor

http://www.centurycarp.co.uk/technology/

Nu Ene,nu te-ai prins...
Ti-am pus doua intrebari,una dupa alta..
S-a vazut clar la care te-ai grabit sa raspunzi...
Poate pe viitor o sa fii mai rezervat in a te juca cu informatii,care nu sint chiar exacte....

[ckostea]

Va salut!
Am o joarda cu diametrul (exterior) de 18.5 mm; vreau sa i montez un maner EVA insa nu vreau, pentru moment, sa folosesc adeziv pentru fixare (s-ar putea sa vreau sa i montez inele de pluta). Ce diametru interior ar trebui sa aiba ''gripul'' de EVA in acest caz?
Va multumesc anticipat pentru raspuns! Costin

[Andrei]

Daca nu ai Reamere sau nu gasesti sa-ti faci... atunci diametrul interior ar trebui sa fie mai mic sau egal cu acel diametru... preferabil cat mai apropiat de acel diametru. Daca nu vrei sa lipesti EVA pe blank, atunci diametrul ar fi cine sa fie in jur de 17mm... ca sa fortezi gripul in pozitie... pot sa spun ca sta la fel de bine ca si lipit.... si nu va mai veni jos decat daca-l tai jos, cu diferenta ca nu vei avea lipici pe blank.

[g30rg3]

Va salut!
Am o joarda cu diametrul (exterior) de 18.5 mm; vreau sa i montez un maner EVA insa nu vreau, pentru moment, sa folosesc adeziv pentru fixare (s-ar putea sa vreau sa i montez inele de pluta). Ce diametru interior ar trebui sa aiba ''gripul'' de EVA in acest caz?
Va multumesc anticipat pentru raspuns! Costin

Eu am montat un grip de eva pe blank Seeker (cu multumiri pe aceasta cale lui A. Sava) fara sa il lipesc. Am folosit tub EVA cu diametru interior de 10mm pe care l-am introdus cu ajutorul sapunului lichid. Ideea e ca in momentul in care sapunul se usuca se face clei si asigura o oarecare priza. Nu garantez ca va ramane o viata acolo ca si in cazul in care este lipit cu epoxy dar datorita diferentei mari de dimensiuni 10 mm interior eva respectiv 17mm blank, se "agata" foarte bine.

[ULK]

La diferenta asa mare de diametru va ramane mult si bine daca e full grip...adica cu o suprafata mare de priza.